Sep 5th in India is celebrated as Teachers Day in memory of Prof. S. Radhakrishnan. On that day this year, we had an Awakin Talk with a spirited teacher and student of life, Prof. Anil Gupta.

The conversation was anchored by two of his former students, Ravi Ghulati and Shobhana Madhavan.

Shobhana started off recalling how she was mentored by Prof. Anil Gupta when she wanted to take the path less trodden after graduating from IIM and how Prof Gupta was there for her every step of the way.

Here are some highlights of questions and answers from the call.

Shobhana: How would you define your calling? Has it changed over the years?

Anil Gupta: When I see the sparks in the eyes of young people, I try to sow seeds of restlessness because I am restless. When I was a student in Haryana, I wouldn’t go home in hot summers. I would paint and read. There was deep desire to understand how the world works or does not work. My parents complained but I wanted to read so many books and there was so little time. That was the first calling I remember. I read this quote once: “Fortitude is the capacity to No when the world wants to hear Yes and is the capacity to Yesa when the world wants to hear No”. Reading a thought that inspires you everyday makes a big difference.

I got a job in a bank in 1973 since my father was not well and came back and finished my masters in genetics. My first job was to rehabilitate people whose houses had been burnt down by upper caste people. My first encounter was to deal with oppressed people without them getting angry. Capacity to forgive your tormentor is not easy. That was the second time I realized I wanted to do something meaningful.

My eldest son was born in1978. And soon after, a position for a management specialist in IIT opened up. I was asked this question in the interview if the flood in Brahmaputra River is a risk or uncertainty. I answered that it was a risk over space and uncertainty over time. I got in. The management institute gave me so much space to explore and experiment. One student gave me a long paper with this quote on top. “Experience is like a rear view mirror. It tells you the road traveled but it doesn’t tell you where to go”. That I liked remaining an incorrigible learner was the third realization.

In 1986 I went to Bangladesh because they had read my paper on Social Ecology and Land Use. People who are Knowledge Rich and Economically Poor are not at the bottom of pyramid. They may be at the bottom of economic pyramid. But what about their place in innovation, knowledge pyramids?

People, who are creative no matter what the constraints, create a pathway to that. Nobody at that time thought Intellectual Property can be used for the poor people. They are not a Sink for Philanthropy but Source of innovation is my other realization.

In the 45th Shodh Yatra where a group of us traveled in rural areas looking to connect and collect grassroots innovations, we recorded 25 innovations over 5 days. I asked a girl what more can be done with my kurta/shirt? She said What about magnetic buttons for people whose hands are not well coordinated? I could not imagine this even though my wife struggled with this issue.

Ravi Gulati: What is the secret to the sparks of your creativity?

Anil Gupta: I have thoughts which I have to convey and my script keeps changing. The day you are not surprised, you are not creative. So surprise is the key. I saw a little girl encouraging an older one to share her idea. You don’t really have to be strong to empower others.

Shobhana: What do you do when students are unengaged in class?
I demand 100 percent attention in class. If they are not at ease, I ask students to go out and refresh or relax themselves and then come in. Mobile phones and laptops are not allowed in my class. My assignments for students who came late were not really a punishment. I ask them to write about 5 characters that have inspired them. I have a large collection now!

Ravi Gulati: You are so good at turning negativity into positivity. What are your biggest frustrations as a teacher?

Anil Gupta: When I would ask a second year student about backward bending slope in Economics and they cannot answer it, I wonder about the caliber. We have become too abstract in teaching. And we are making a caricature of human behavior with statements like we are all chasing the same thing.

When we do these, people take up jobs that are going to make them unhappy. I had a brilliant student who did not get placement because he wanted to work in the small business sector and all the companies offering placements were big players. I connected him with a fund that works with small businesses and he flourished there and turned around sick companies.

So I wonder where the authenticity is? Where is the Joy? Where is the spark in the eyes?

In 1991 a student came and said Sir you are still optimistic, we have become cynical. I think our systems should serve the people. I know this revenue officer who trains his people to go to houses where somebody has died when all the family is gathered. This makes sure land is divided justly.

Ravi Gulati: How do you come up with so many brilliant questions?

Anil Gupta: I tend to talk to myself on morning walks. I dream every day that it need not be impossible or awkward for someone to invite a stranger like me for a cup of tea. If I don't hear from at least one stranger a week who will teach me something, ask me something, learn something, I feel disappointed. Maybe I am a spider weaving a web trying to catch these strangers.

Early in the morning I see these people collecting waste. They are excellent teachers of waste management and its supply chain. When I was invited to talk on the subject, I shared what I learnt from them.

Shobhana: Tell us about your parents.

Anil Gupta: My grandfather was a monk. My father was a soil scientist. My mother was a teacher. So we had soil and ecology discussions at home regularly. My parents were disciplinarians to us and very kind to the society around. They struggled financially but never sought or gave favors. Yes, they had contradictions in their behavior but there were many good things about them. They had a great library. Myself and my brother learnt all the household chores and dignity of labor. At the age of 15, my father said, your marks are not great. You are on your own with respect to your education. I thought it was a challenge. We had a lot of intellectual liberty.

Shobhana: Tell us a bit more about your grandfather

Anil Gupta: After marrying off his youngest daughter, my grandfather left for an Arya Samaj Ashram in Haridwar. His daily routine there was to go to each person at the ashram and ask what they needed to get done for the day. He collected lists from everyone, accomplished them by traveling to Haridwar if needed. He believed Service is the best form of devotion. He owned very few material things. These memories have stayed with me. I believe the value of frugality has to be restored. I still wear mended clothes.

Shobhana: Can you please share how you processed the grief of losing Sadhana, your wife?

Anil Gupta: Her favorite color was yellow. I use yellow sheets and pillow covers in my room. I remember her every day. Her Dad was a Samskritam professor. She did not speak lies. Her bar was very high so she did not have that many friends. Once I told her we should stop celebrating birthdays because I could not appreciate the habit of gift giving and gift comparisons. Sadhana immediately said yes.

There is so much distortion in society because we want to secure the future of our kids. Give them values and leave them in the world! Sadhana's values, simplicity and frugality were stronger than mine. I think I was unfair to her and the children because I spent long hours with my students and their assignments. I could not be fair to my students and my family at the same time.

Rohit shared a couple of poems written by Prof. Gupta. Forgive O Kali and Sneha Ke Beej (Seeds of Love)

Anil Gupta: How did you find them? I wrote these 45 poems in one night. These are thoughts that flowed through me not by me.

Ravi Gulati: Is there anything that makes you despair?

Anil Gupta: The hard heart needs to be educated. Our innovation lab came about because of someone’s generosity. When my father wanted to build a school, a person who knew him said “Dr Gupta we have figured out how you live your life. Here is the money, please go build your school”. The ability of people to surprise with generosity and faith in a larger cause that binds us together is amazing.

One thing that frustrates me..I have put up so many references online but nobody reads. Drishti library has 3000 books online but nobody seems to care. I have 5000 books at home. Nobody comes to study, learn and share. All of us have to read, read a lot, read diverse material.

Rohit shared a short video by Khusroo who recalled how he instilled the spirit of Nothing is Impossible in those around him and how he was gifted a laptop when it was needed. And he asked some questions on behalf of the audience.

Question: Sir, the seeds you have sown have sprouted far and wide. When we wish for a better world, we have a wish that if these people were able to change in this way, it would be so much better. How do we engage without expectations from the other person?

Anil Gupta: I have had wonderful teachers. Prof Mathur in 1980 who gave me so much feedback on my paper but refused to put his name as a co author. When you meet such teachers at a younger age, you realize that it is not enough to be generous; you have to be able to practice it actively.

Dr S N Kakka a microbiologist, taught me how to learn to learn. We are not supposed to teach. We have to help students learn how to learn. And we need some randomness in life, not just single minded purpose. I read somewhere that if you see beauty in a person; you are seeing the light of their teachers.

Rohit shared a clip by village head Arjun who shared how Shodh Yatra with Prof. Gupta changed his life.

Question: We live in a monoculture mindset where only certain kinds of intelligence get rewarded. On one end there is benefits of monetization and on the other end there is doing something as a reward in itself. How does the market crowd out relationships? Do I offer room space for a friend or put it up on Airbnb? How much of my work should be to bring people with a community mindset to mainstream and how much should we mainstream community? As they say, today we know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

Anil Gupta: Markets cannot see the hidden talents. One wish of mine is to have a Global Innovation Foundation where every entrepreneur is supported no matter where they live. We have filed so many patents. People to people earnings should be open source. People to Market earnings should be licensed. We are bridging the gaps for those who deserve our time but cannot desire our time. All our databases are open.

I think markets and communities need some blending. Personally, money wise, I need that space where I need to be accountable only to my consciousness so I channel monetary compensation from my speaking engagements to these projects.

Rohit played another wish from Ajay, a former student who impersonated Prof Gupta in a funny but deep way. And Prof Gupta concluded by reading his poem, "The Loop"

The talk concluded with a teacher’s day wish from Pawan where he shared his biggest learning from Dr.Gupta. “When living, loving and learning happen in the same place, bliss happens”.