On Aug 21, 2021, we had an Awakin Talk with musician Bindhumalini Narayanaswamy. Jignasha Pandya introduced the speaker as an artist who likes to play at the edges. The conversation was moderated by Gayathri Ramachandran and together they took a deep dive into the many facets of the making of an artist and being an artist, Here are some nuggets from the conversation.

• Between Inner and Outer Lives: In this song from Karnataka that is more than 100 years old, Lingamma talks about the lamp, which is at the doorstep. How that sheds light both inside and outside. So a Sharana or the seeker, the one who's on the path, looks both inside and outside. It says he knows, yet he forgets; He sees, yet he does not see. When the seer, the seeing and the object that is seen merges, the seeker goes into bliss
• On Spiritual Cultivation: As my Baba, Ustad Abdul Rashid Khan, would say, to be a Fakir, to be somebody who's in the path doesn't mean you have to leave everything and go into the jungle. It's about being in practice while being in your samsara.
  
• Memories of a musical childhood: My mother's lap and the music associated with that, even my grandmother's home, was the space of safety and play for me. At the same time, when you start looking at any of this and step out, there are spaces that you need to negotiate; and to understand that not every space is what you think it is. And that has an impact.
• On Fear: It's okay to experience fear. To acknowledge and accept that there is fear. And then also know that you don't have to be clinging onto that fear or to be in its clutches. So, that is what, again, Baba's music brought me back to. And somewhere I think, in respect of how I sing, what I sing, I try to create that space for myself and whoever the listener is? I guess?! So my singing usually is an invitation for others to join in that space, than to push the force outside.
• Being sculpted by the teacher: Being shaped by a Guru is like what Kabir says. The imagery of a pot being shaped, how you put your hand in, and also beat it from the outside to shape it. The guru does that. He holds you, but he also beats you into shape. It's a very tricky line. You don't beat too hard; at the same time, you hold firmly.
• Turning/Braking Point: From the kind of life I was hurtling towards, it was really like the momentum was too much and I couldn't make sense of what was going on. And I had set the ball rolling long ago. I didn't know whether I could apply the brakes or not move at all. So I had to really abruptly somehow go dash somebody. I think that (person) was Baba. And, I just closed my eyes and dashed, because I don't think you can consciously apply brakes and land safely. Or at least I didn't have that.
  
• Collaborations: I think the choice of collaboration is not just the music, but the person. So, who is that other person? What do we want to make together? It's like a marriage every time, actually. And to constantly allow for those silences, those gaps, those spaces in between meaning, the verbal-non-verbal, all those spaces to be present. That helps in the collaboration, because we meet and we see what does the other person come with? What do I come with? What is the intention? Then we have conversations. Then the music happens.
• Being Mindful: I have definitely learned that if I'm a bit agitated, I make sure that everything around me collapses. So to catch myself before doing that has become the important thing -- "What is my role in the damage that is getting created?" And can I, first of all, be mindful of that?" Once I figure it out, I'm like, "Okay, now I know this is my part of the damage. Now that I'm aware of that, let's see what is the damage?" And probably see how it can be contained. Many times when I realize my own role in the damage caused, it resolves itself. Or I become okay with whatever the result is.
• Experiencing beyond the mind: I can not decide to go and enjoy some music. However, if without me knowing, I have started to cry while listening to some music or while seeing something, I'm like, "Oh, okay, okay. That means my mind was not doing it. It happened."
• Different Musical Styles: Initially when training with Baba, I had to completely stop singing Carnatic for a long time so that my voice could try to start producing different sounds. It's like learning a new language, but at the same time, the mind has got the Carnatic framework and it's trying to fit every information into that. And not all of it was making sense. So Baba would just say, "Can you stop making sense of what it is? Just reproduce, reproduce, reproduce."
• Diving in: Over time I could see -- (now) -- how Baba was constantly being fast enough to put you at the speed where you are just before the mind. And then the actual singing starts. If you kind of pull back your mind, stop the mind, it's okay. It's like going and grazing and then ruminating over it first.
  
• Knowing & not-knowing: I realize why I'm very comfortable with knowing that I know some, and then I don't know much -- it is probably because now I'm learning Tamil, to read and write Tamil actually. So, it's interesting how I can speak a language, I can understand the language so well, yet there is one faculty of that which I didn't get trained in. So, to clearly say that I know enough, but I don't know so much. And probably even with music, that's how it is. That I know I have some enough information, enough knowledge to operate with, but there's much more that I don't know. And between us knowing and not knowing, a lot of things are possible also.
• On Impermanence: There's this huge thing about fear of being forgotten or that we will forget something, to constantly keep something in the memory. So, what is important to be remembered and what is okay to be forgotten?
• On Organic: This is where some things start forming on their own also. And you kind of let it happen. So to see what happens when something is left to happen on its own is one thing. And the other is, instead of building up, how to break it into a lesser number of things? And can it still hold by its own essence? So even with music, I guess that's where my space of experimentation is. Can I do it just with guitar? Can I go solo?
  
• Purpose of music: Music can be a bitter pill or any kind of facade that you want to put up.They can also be curtains. Music has an emotional force to it, and it really hits you at your most vulnerable points. So it is important how it is used and as what. Right from even ad jingles, one can have the music used in a way where you'll be sold immediately.
  

• No judgement: If there's a society where there are polarities, you become open to having many more voices. I don't have to choose one language or the other, just because of my comfort, just because of my familiarity, Tamil is my language. But for each one, their language is the most beautiful one. So, there can be two ways about it. Similarly, be it religion, be it practice, be it culture, be it where they come from, their home, their homeland -- for each one, that's paradise. So I guess it's about making sure you don't want to take control of others or to prove that I am better than you. I am right and you're wrong. So that's where I think I'm trying to place my music.
• Can we measure art: What is my music worth and how am I to measure it? Is it because of popularity? Is it by the way I make money? Is it by the numbers on my Instagram following or the subscribers for my YouTube channel right now, or the number of audience am I singing to? 30 or 500 or a thousand or 5,000? How do I put a price to all of this?

• Money & Vocation: For me it would be okay to say, yeah, I have to put a certain kind of value to something at the same time. I can not be driven only by that. I mean, what's my focus? It's to lead a comfortable life, do what I can do and have my music. There are spaces where you're receiving things in a way which is not monetary -- it's people, it's relationships. It's wisdom, it's knowledge, or other kinds of barter system.
  
• Consistency: My Baba always used to say -- okay, fix a time for your practice and just do it then. Even if it's five minutes. And I just couldn't do it. Now, I'm doing it. So this 8:45 ('Here for you' sessions) was a practice to say, can I stick to it?, Just show up, nothing else.
• Content Overload: I understand that for many of us, including me, things can very easily get very overwhelming in terms of sheer numbers, quantity. So it's about picking, choosing, and sometimes drawing lines. If I suffer from information digestion, that means I have to shut down. I have to stop consuming. I can't help the fact that there's a movie, but I have to say stop.

• Content & Context. When I was doing the 'Here for You' sessions during the second covid wave -- more than content, I created context because any content outside of its context could make no sense, or completely be misinterpreted and be quite meaningless. So context is as important as content. And I managed to do this everyday, a 15 minute regulated space from 8:45 PM to 9 PM. The whole idea was music and silence. And the context is that it's a nonjudgmental space.