Rollin McCraty: I'll be kind of brief here as I can, because I was being pursued to come speak at this conference in Saudi Arabia for a while, and I kept ignoring them. I mean, Saudi Arabia, I knew nothing about it, I knew nothing about the Islamic religions or anything, and why would I want to go there? So, anyway, I finally had a phone call with the person that was pursuing. We've actually become really good friends.

We call each other the Hart Brothers now. Who is this incredibly well-known cardiologist, and he has a conference that he put on called The Heart, the King of Organs. Right? And so I finally agreed to go.

And I was just flat-blown away by my experience there, of how kind the people were. Nothing like what our media and we're led to believe. It was some of the most kind, gentle. Loving people I've ever run into, and I was just treated so well.

So many stories that have come out of that over the years now, that experience of, we really need to travel and meet people from other cultures, right?

Nipun: To get past our,

Rollin McCraty: Inherent unconscious biases and fears and so on, because it was shocking to me. Anyway, I arrived, and first trip to the cardiologist, Dr. Abdallah. We go up to this large, three-story cardiac hospital that he built.

Right? And so he's in a very... he's not arrogant or anything, he's telling me we're in his office, it's filled with books and things. And he said, I have literally 6 degrees in cardiology.

And he's pretty well-known guy. And he said, and not in any of these books. Alright, is the spiritual heart, or the energetic heart mentioned? They said, I'm also a devout follower of the Quran and Islam, and in there we have many 190-some references to the heart, and not once are they talking about the physical heart.

So I created this conference to bridge those two worlds. In a scientific way.