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Give and take are done simultaneously and yet are a paradox inside a dual epistemology but if we try to see and live from a non-dual point of view? Then any act of giving become a nutritive act, and desire will not be any more considered a lack of something but a vital force emerging from "caosmos" to be experienced in a pre-self body/spirit sensation.

 At the Berkeley Buddhist Monastery Steve Tainer's classes always use seeing in the same sense as Salzmann does. Seeing as a direct way of knowing. He make us practice meditation exercises to find out the meaning in our own experience. There is no need to believe in any idea, this different way of knowing is available to anyone. No secrets no mysteries, hera and now for every one who wants to go beyond common sense.