Reader comment on Jeff Foster's passage ...

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    On Feb 23, 2014 Charles Eisenstein wrote:

     I agree with Jeff, but there is a danger in teachings like that. I imagine telling it to a starving teenager in Somalia or a mutilated woman or someone whose family was killed in a drone strike. "That didn't happen to you, it happened FOR you." Am I speaking a living truth, or am I speaking from western white privilege? This teaching can obscure the ways in which we participate in, have agency in, injustice. To take the extreme example, it would by hypocritical indeed to beat someone up and take their money, and say, "This is happening as a gift from the universe for your development." But the equivalent is happening every time we make a purchase or pay taxes or drive a car...

    I'm not advocating we feel guilty about these things. I agree with what Jeff says. But I do think the dimension I mention here has to be accommodated within that metaphysics, or it will not be fully satisfying.


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    On Feb 23, 2014 xiaoshan pan wrote:

    Deal Charles, this is not about that starving teenager in Somalia, or about the mutilated woman. This is not about you, or about me. So, one cannot say "it happened FOR you" because it is not about "you."  However, if one realizes what this "you" truly refers to, then it all makes sense - it is about that starving teenager in Somalia, and about the mutilated woman.  It is about you, and about me.  Yes, it happened for you too.


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    On Feb 23, 2014 Susan Livingston wrote:

    Thank you, Charles, for speaking my thoughts more eloquently than I did elsewhere in this thread. I don't feel guilty; I'm doing exactly what I was put/brought here to do. I only feel disgusted and terrified. The neuroscience of empathy teaches that we can only see the monstrosity if we can find it in ourselves. Cold comfort, eh?


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    On Feb 23, 2014 Conrad P Pritscher wrote:

     Thank you so much Xiaoshan Pan for your uncommon wisdom. I am grateful.
    Conrad P Pritscher


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    On Mar 19, 2014 Claudia wrote:

    I am so happy i found this conversation!! I have been reading this kind of wisdom for some times now, and while  it makes me feel better, it always leaves me frustrated because it only seem to apply to privilege people who have food   on their plate.. Charles puts it well and i would love to find books that discuss this subject. Thank you all ;)
    claudia


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    On Mar 19, 2014 Paris wrote:

     Sooooo what does Jeff have to say about this ? Please explain Jeff xx


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    On Mar 20, 2014 Conrad P. Pritscher wrote:

     The attached book, "Learning What to Ignore" may be helpful, I notice I can't attach it.PLEASE SEND ME YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS AND i CAN THEN ATTACH IT.
     Kind regards
     Conrad


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    On Mar 20, 2014 claudia wrote:

     Thank you Conrad, 
    I might just finally have found the right link to many questions! I see you actually wrote the book you suggested, and i will try to get my hands on it for sure. Writing my email public does not seem like a good idea right now but i found the link. According to so many books, what you think ,the way you think about it, your attitude, your "intention", your perseverance, and your out look on life is suppose to affect it greatly, but i see starving children that  think about food all day and it does not help, no matter how positive they are, so it seem like one might need more then a good attitude. The only explanation i have for myself is that we have a "role" to play on earth, and that role might be to be a starving person, because this is what we need to learn and teach , by being that person , in this life time. Does that make any sense? 
    claudia


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    On Mar 20, 2014 Amelia wrote:

     Interesting "take" (the roles we play on this earth).  
    I have a brother in law who has a history that goes like this:  10 years, abused by his wife; Divorce;  Developed addictions to alcohol, tobacco, sex and prescription drugs (to cope); Mental abuse continues (by former wife).  A second marriage and divorce;  Fell further into the pit of addictions; Lost his job; Completed one year of rehab;  Now clean.  No money.  No job.  He has yet to seriously pursue work.  Family has invested a little over 100,000 for his care/to keep his home/care of teenage daughters over the last 3 years.   
    He feels like "the victim" and that we (the family) have an obligation to take care of him.  I so wonder what "role" we are meant to play here?  . . . And for how long?  


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