Awakin.org

Waking up to Wisdom
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Previous Comments By 'ctodd1000'

You Carry Your Wound, by Osho

FaceBook  On Feb 17, 2012 Catherine Todd wrote:
 Funsho Olokesusi wrote:"
susanschaller wrote about going from I to We. Seems very simple but friends i put it to you that is a whole journey between those two words. in between is a gully that has swallowed lots of lives, dreams, potentials, oppurtunities. There is a fragment of you (what makes you complete) in another. Being able to live for other people is living your life to the fullest. Your kind deeds are coiled up in a boomerang it always bounces back at your with greater force. Add value to someone everyday of your life"

Thank you Funsho! This is one of the most important comments I've read here. I thought there was something wrong with me that I didn't "get it" right off. I have spent my entire life trying to cross that gully; trying to climb out of that gully that I was born into; that I fell into. Trapped. But perhaps no longer. I will learn to soar above.

Gracias! Equals Grace. To the Divine, Please show me The Way.

"The winds of grace blow all the time; all we need do is set our sails."
 

You Carry Your Wound, by Osho

FaceBook  On Feb 17, 2012 Catherine Todd wrote:

bob sauerbrey wrote:  "This is at the heart of being real:  Forgive...why?....because there is no one to blame."

Well. That makes sense. I was actually able to do that ONCE IN MY LIFE, with a person who was so damaged and "evil" that I knew he could NOT make "right decisions." That he was ALWAYS going to "do the wrong thing." He couldn't help himself. He was "bad to the bone."

He was furious when I said that, but I was so calm at the time... I always remember this because later when he robbed me, tried to kill me, tried to get me put in jail, tried to destroy me to make him "just like me" none of it mattered. I was hurt at first, thinking he was a "friend" that I was "trying to save" when in fact I ended up learning how to "save myself." By staying AWAY from "bad people." They are the way they are.

Using Bob's analogy, just because my own parents and siblings might fall into that same category, doesn't mean I should blame them or be angry at them, I guess. They are the way they are.

Nothing and no one to blame. Damaged goods is damaged goods, and just because they are damaged doesn't mean I am too.

Amen. Show us The Way. Gracias is Grace.

 

You Carry Your Wound, by Osho

FaceBook  On Jan 25, 2012 Catherine Todd wrote:
 Somik, I will re-read all the responses here, including your own. But it's like seeing Mars from afar.
 

You Carry Your Wound, by Osho

FaceBook  On Jan 25, 2012 Catherine Todd wrote:
 "Nobody is interested in hurting you, nobody is positively waiting to hurt you..."

I really can't understand how you could possibly make this statement. With all the cruelty and wars, personal, political, religious and governmental, it makes no sense to say that people are "not wanting to hurt you." Was 9-11 just an "ego thing" in our imaginations? Is all the destruction we in the United States have caused upon the war just in "their imaginations?

What are you saying here? This is why I have a hard time with the "everything is me" part of the meditation community. I must live in a completely different world than the person who made this statement. I really don't understand. Please explain.
 

We Are Between Stories, by Judith Thompson

FaceBook  On Dec 19, 2011 Catherine Todd wrote:

Conrad wrote: "Zen …insists that the whole trouble is just our failure to realize that there is no problem, and of course, this means that there is no solution either.”

      “…A solution to the great problem of life, is not solving it all: the not solving is really the solving. The wise man does not pursue wisdom but lives his life and therein precisely does his wisdom lie.  The wisdom that Faust comes to in the end, Zen starts with it... When an ordinary person becomes enlightened, he or she is a sage. When a sage becomes enlightened, he or she is an ordinary person.” Reducing desire and being in the present more often are great  for me."

 

Thank you! These are "words to the wise" and "words from the wise" and I can understand and take this to heart. Gracias!

 

"The winds of grace blow all the time; all we need do is set our sails."

 

Everyday Creativity, by Ruth Richards

FaceBook  On Dec 19, 2011 Catherine Todd wrote:

"Look! LOOK! I insisted. Even my daughter looked up.  Right there, out of nowhere: a magical misty landscape. Fields moving off to infinity in muted purples and pastels, fuzzy in the haze, with clusters of tall lush tress, darkening and receding in the dusk. I turned the car engine off. All was silent in the hot summer air. Beside us a plum-colored river barely moved between a border of trees, its dark lazy water reflecting the last light of day."

What beautiful words... this I had to share. Gracias.

 

We Are Between Stories, by Judith Thompson

FaceBook  On Dec 19, 2011 Catherine Todd wrote:

"...We have chosen to name this trend social healing partly because we see an evolving paradigm that is not fundamentally hinged around the dualities of good vs. bad and right vs. wrong, but is rather inclined toward viewing human conflict through the lens of wounding and healing. Social healing, then, is not guided by revenge, retribution or punishment, but rather by the compassionate response of relating to all people -- victims, transgressors and bystanders alike – as inextricably connected."

 

This is wonderful. This is something I can try. Thank you so much.

 

Pilgrimage to Nonviolence, by Martin Luther King, Jr.

FaceBook  On Dec 15, 2011 Catherine Todd wrote:

Thank you again Tristan, for your incredibly honest and thoughtful comments. I have been thinking about your words ever since. Much to learn here... so far to go, so little time (teaching an old dog new tricks?) but perhaps we have as many lifetimes as we need?  Gracias to everyone here.

"The winds of grace blow all the time; all we need do is set our sails."

Please show me The Way.

 

Pilgrimage to Nonviolence, by Martin Luther King, Jr.

FaceBook  On Dec 6, 2011 Catherine Todd wrote:

Yet what makes Martin Luther King's life "worthwhile" if he DID in fact practice nonviolence, and he was shot and killed for it in the end?

That's the part that I cannot understand. Are we to give up our "will to live" in the process? We who are still "attached to the physical world?"

Do we simply expect to "rise again?" I'm not that far along. I will fight back to preserve my own life. I fight fire with a nuclear bomb.

 

Pilgrimage to Nonviolence, by Martin Luther King, Jr.

FaceBook  On Dec 6, 2011 Catherine Todd wrote:

kvakutty wrote: "Non violence is the highest virtue. It means not haming another by thought word or deed..."

This sentence, in all it's stark reality and simplicity, really struck me.

I would say that I NEVER "harm another by deed" but I will ALWAYS harm another by word. In fact, I was raised that way, and I am completely justified in my own mind; it's instantaenous and it's so wrong. Now I really have something to think about. Think, Practice, Do. Become. Gracias, amigo.

 

 

 

Pilgrimage to Nonviolence, by Martin Luther King, Jr.

FaceBook  On Nov 17, 2011 Catherine Todd wrote:

Thank you Somik and everyone here for their take on the idea and practice of nonviolence. I am involved in a dispute right now with another nonprofit, and while I know that we are all (supposedly) working towards the same goal - that of "helping others," I can see that ego and defensiveness, hostility and fear is ruling the day. And I am playing a part in it with my own reaction. So I am reading all this with great eagerness, as I can't see a way out of this dark void I found myself thrown into (or jumped into, I don't know which), so this discussion carries great importance to me in the real world of NOW.

I will continue to read with interest and hope I can find what I came here to learn.

 

However, I can say with a certaintly, that I have NOT found that "kindness begets kindness" as you say. Did the "kind" and innocent Jews receive "kindness" at the hands of the Nazis, or did they all "deserve it" somehow via acts of karma?

That's where all this falls down for me. Along with the reaction and problems I am having with this current nonprofit, who apparently has something to hide. Did I bring that on myself by asking for information? Was I not "kind" enough in my simple, factual request?

 

How are we to maintain composure in the face of selfishness, iies, blame, shame, intimidation, threats and more? If someone throws a stick of dynamite over the fence into my yard, I am going to pick it up and return it. There is no way I would let someone blow me up out of "compassion" or any other reason. I don't start fights, but I will step up and put an end to them. I don't do it with force, but I use the opposition's own fear against them. They use their fear against themselves, and that is what finally makes them stop themselves.

How can that be wrong?

 

Pilgrimage to Nonviolence, by Martin Luther King, Jr.

FaceBook  On Nov 17, 2011 Catherine Todd wrote:

AtoZ wrote: "The utopian/fantastical ideas that offer yourself to the wild beasts to verify if they eat you OR Gandhi's suggestions to the jews to offer themselves to Hitler are non-sensical at worst and naive at best and have nothing to do with reality OR the moral laws of the universe in my opinion."

 

THANK YOU. These kinds of statements and this kind of thinking is what previously kept me away from the meditation / nonviolent movement. It's "utopian/fantastical" and ridiculous.

 

Where did a story get started about monks "offering themselves to wild beasts to be eaten out of compassion" get started? And that the hungry beasts refused to eat them? Even St. Francis did not go that far.

 

Whenever I think I can't take anymore, someone comes in with reason and intelligence, and excellent explanations, such as AtoZ has. THANK YOU. I can stay here a little longer and learn something in the process.

 

I like the idea of practicing nonviolence while using necessary force, only when required, and without anger or hatred in one's heart. That's the part I have to learn. Thank you for these reminders and for helping me with this.

 

Pilgrimage to Nonviolence, by Martin Luther King, Jr.

FaceBook  On Nov 17, 2011 Catherine Todd wrote:

A to Z wrote: "An immature or unevolved bully can only understand force"

 

Thank you. NOW I feel I can be part of a "non-violent movement," knowing I don't have to sit there and take it, and let them kill me in the process. The trick is to withstand and overpower, when necessary, the bully without hatred and by doing the least amount of harm possible. Using the least amount of force necessary. Having grown up in an extremely violent household, I learned early on that I had to stand up for myself or be killed. I could never understand the "turn the other cheek" business until I read this exchange.

Thank you!

 

The winds of grace blow all the time; all we need do is set our sails."

 

Please show me The Way.

 

Individual and Social Ethics, by Bertrand Russell

FaceBook  On Mar 26, 2011 Catherine Todd wrote:

What an incredible discussion here! I have had many experiences involving "light" and I can attest to being quite imbalanced. (Thank you for not using the word "crazy.") I never asked for these experiences; they came unbidden. However, they have kept me searching for the Light outside of the Darkness I have all too often found myself in; a darkness of the mind.

 

I am so glad you are posting these discussions for all of us who can't be there... they are *almost* as good as the real thing. I feel that I am being given a chance to learn from many different viewpoints, all from the comfort - or distance - of my home. Gracias amigos; bendiciones. Little by little Grace will come.

 

"The winds of grace blow all the time. All we need do is set our sails."

Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa ~ Gospel of Ramakrishna

 

Instilling Discipline and Responsibility in our Lives, by Angeles Arrien

FaceBook  On Mar 17, 2011 Catherine Todd wrote:

Chris, what you are saying makes so much sense. There have been instances where I could not be angry at someone who tried to hurt me (threatened to kill me, actually) because I knew that this person was mentally ill or simply no good. I really believe this was a devil's disciple, and could not help himself. He would ALWAYS make the "wrong choice." He could do nothing but evil. It was his nature. But how in the world does one "take a beating from someone and still look him in the eyes with love?" What am I missing that I am one of those who can't force myself to wish well one who delivers a blow?" You point out that "it either naturally arises from a deep commitment to values or it doesn't --" but does that mean I have no commitment to values? I must be so far off the mark as to not be able to recognize any of this notion of "love for one's enemies" as I simply cannot see my way clear to understand that those that I trusted have betrayed me and tried to destroy me. The addicted devil that pretended to be a "friend" couldn't help himself - or did not want to help himself - given the horrendous environment he was raised in. But I come from an upper-middle class environment of education and religion, and these people are in many ways WORSE thant that self-professed "gutter rat" was. These people are hypocrites to the extreme, and they are in positions of some power. How to "look at them with eyes of love" when they are bent on destroying anyone who stands in their way of the lies that they tell and the hypocrisies they promote? Are we supposed to look at Hitler with "eyes of love?"   I remember reading a story about the letters Gandhi wrote to Hitler, calling him "friend." As if that was going to stop that cruel and heartless, mentally ill madman. Is that what we are supposed to do? How to find compassion for people who "should know better" when it does not  See full.

Chris, what you are saying makes so much sense. There have been instances where I could not be angry at someone who tried to hurt me (threatened to kill me, actually) because I knew that this person was mentally ill or simply no good. I really believe this was a devil's disciple, and could not help himself. He would ALWAYS make the "wrong choice." He could do nothing but evil. It was his nature.

But how in the world does one "take a beating from someone and still look him in the eyes with love?" What am I missing that I am one of those who can't force myself to wish well one who delivers a blow?"

You point out that "it either naturally arises from a deep commitment to values or it doesn't --" but does that mean I have no commitment to values? I must be so far off the mark as to not be able to recognize any of this notion of "love for one's enemies" as I simply cannot see my way clear to understand that those that I trusted have betrayed me and tried to destroy me.

The addicted devil that pretended to be a "friend" couldn't help himself - or did not want to help himself - given the horrendous environment he was raised in. But I come from an upper-middle class environment of education and religion, and these people are in many ways WORSE thant that self-professed "gutter rat" was. These people are hypocrites to the extreme, and they are in positions of some power. How to "look at them with eyes of love" when they are bent on destroying anyone who stands in their way of the lies that they tell and the hypocrisies they promote? Are we supposed to look at Hitler with "eyes of love?"

 

I remember reading a story about the letters Gandhi wrote to Hitler, calling him "friend." As if that was going to stop that cruel and heartless, mentally ill madman. Is that what we are supposed to do? How to find compassion for people who "should know better" when it does not arise "naturally?" Are we to have compassion for the pit bulls and the vipers of this world?

 

And if so, how does that change things? We are smiling at them as we die from their bites?

 

I am such a novice at all this. I can barely understand a word people are saying here, and I have heard it all my life. The reality is that I know nothing and don't know what good any of this really does. But I can't stop trying. I am grateful for discussions such as these. Maybe light will be shed in the dark corners and rooms in my mind.

 

 

Hide full comment.

 

Ancient Law of Hospitality, by Thomas Berry

FaceBook  On Mar 16, 2011 Catherine Todd wrote:

Thank you Rambo. I am trying to do this every day. Now if I could just figure out "how." I am trying to do just this: " Courage means to act in spite of your fear and building it is just like building a muscle - it requires practice." I have always said that the only real antagonist I have is my self. If I didn't exactly create my own monsters, I certainly have fed and watered them!

Now on to meditation on how to give up my anger, fear and resentments. God grant me peace and show me the way. Amen. Aaaaaaa OOoooooo MMMMMMmmmmmmmmmm

 

Ancient Law of Hospitality, by Thomas Berry

FaceBook  On Mar 11, 2011 catherine todd wrote:

Thank you Rambo. It is very hard for me, if not impossible for me, to see cruel and angry people as "suffering." In fact, I think they are enjoying it quite a bit! That's the description of a SADIST and they do exist. That's the description of a narcissist or a borderline personality, who ENJOY hurting others as it relieves whatever pressure they feel inside. They are fine afterwards, while the other person is left to lick their wounds and try to staunch the bleeding.

But since ALL religions seem to talk about forgiveness in the way that you do, I am going to keep on "giving it a try." I have yet to find the key to unlock this door, but someone above talked about "meditating" on the parts of a passage they did not understand, "until it was clear." Or something along those lines.

I swear that the TIGER in me wants only to smash those people into oblivion and put an "end to the problem." Yet I know that can't really be an answer either, as it falls into "an eye for an eye" theory. I would like to take TWO EYES for an eye, to tell you the truth.

HOW TO STAND UP FOR MYSELF, AND HOW TO MOVE ON?

I have struggled with this ALL MY LIFE.

 

Ancient Law of Hospitality, by Thomas Berry

FaceBook  On Mar 11, 2011 Catherine Todd wrote:

Pancho, re-reading your comment (after the spam comment came in today): it all sounds good, especially the part about "family." But when you come from a TOXIC family, how are we supposed to know how to treat people as "brothers & sisters?" That is not always a good thing. Forgiving them just allows them to continue the mistreatment. I only know how to stay away from them or return the bombs they throw at me. And Ghandi and the others were killed by "brothers & sisters," if "everyone" is family. What good did it do either of them, or us? It is a cold and cruel and heartless world we live in. Outside of "the mind." And perhaps in it.

 

You Carry Your Wound, by Osho

FaceBook  On Feb 1, 2011 Catherine Todd wrote:

Wow. That's what I call a RESPONSE. Taking the High Road and the Long View.

Now on to read "Gandhi and Hitler."

Gracias. Gratitude. Blessings All Around. CT

 

You Carry Your Wound, by Osho

FaceBook  On Feb 1, 2011 Catherine Todd wrote:

I can understand the part about the elephant poo: that's essentially what we will be doing when we build houses and schools with used tires and plastic water bottles filled with sand or dirt. That's all to the good, certainly.

 

But you also wrote: "Catherine, for any solution to be found, you will have to find unity with those who are the perceived victims, and those who are the perceived perpetrators. It is a partial view that sees one as good and not the other."

 

How do I find unity with people who tried to kill me or destroy me or harm me in some way? HOW TO DO THAT? What am I supposed to see as "good" in that? Are the Nazi Jew survivors supposed to see "good" in their captors?

 

You Carry Your Wound, by Osho

FaceBook  On Feb 1, 2011 Catherine Todd wrote:

I want to SHARE what we have, without doing damage to the environment, culture or soul.

 

You Carry Your Wound, by Osho

FaceBook  On Feb 1, 2011 Catherine Todd wrote:

"His point is not to build up ego as saviors of those who need saving, but to develop gratitude that we found ourselves in a position to help, and in so doing, we opened ourselves up to the greatest lesson of all - that when we help others, we literally and actually, help ourselves."

 

Somik, THANK YOU. I have always said that I'm not doing anything for the others, any more than they are doing for me, if not more. I've gotten as much or more than anything thing I give... especially in Guatemala where there's nothing but gringo do-gooders who are helping the "poor down-trodden Indians" who in reality have given me so much. The indigenous are teaching me Patience and Prayer = Peace.

 

I want to bring education and medical care and am doing so, but also destroying their culture with consumerism as I come. I am very concerned about this and not sure of what to do. Tourists are there before me and will be after me, and we all carry the benefits and drawbacks of "education" but at what cost? What to do?

 

How does Nature "play a game" with us?

 

You Carry Your Wound, by Osho

FaceBook  On Feb 1, 2011 Catherine Todd wrote:

I just saw what Somik Raha wrote on Dec 7, 2010. WOW. Now that's what I needed to hear. I only saw the last comment (after the comment notification was implemented, apparently). I gave up when I saw "don't take anything seriously." So I quit. Ready to Quit caring, quit reading, quit giving, quit everything.

Now I have a roadmap about "attachment" that I can follow. I'll get back on that horse and ride. Thank you so much. CT

But does this mean we are NOT to "help" beggars and the infirm? I don't understand.

 

Instilling Discipline and Responsibility in our Lives, by Angeles Arrien

FaceBook  On Jan 25, 2011 Catherine Todd wrote:

Dear Pancho, you wrote: "This is a life time endeavor" and that it took 15 years of community living and more. Thank you for pointing that out! I thought I was a failure because I had not "gotten it yet." But I see progress step by step and day by day. I am so grateful to have found this site. Gracias, amigos!

 

Instilling Discipline and Responsibility in our Lives, by Angeles Arrien

FaceBook  On Jan 9, 2011 Catherine Todd wrote:

Somik, your reflection moved me to tears. Beautifully said; every last bit of it. CT

 

Individual and Social Ethics, by Bertrand Russell

FaceBook  On Jan 6, 2011 Catherine Todd wrote:

Bertrand Russell wrote: "Once in Los Angeles I was taken to see the Mexican colony - idle vagabonds, I was told, but to me they seemed to be enjoying more of what makes life a boon and not a curse than fell to the lot of my anxious hard-working hosts. When I tried to explain this feeling, however, I was met with a blank and total lack of comprehension."

I have worked with Latinos for almost 20 years, and this happens to me all the time. That's why I finally moved to Guatemala where I am learning to live a life in patience, and in prayer. I am there part time but look forward to when it's more full-time. For now, I am a "monk in a monastery" while I'm there and it's making all the difference in the world.

In America, I learned how to make money. In France, I learned how to live. In Central America, I am learning how to pray.

 

Instilling Discipline and Responsibility in our Lives, by Angeles Arrien

FaceBook  On Jan 5, 2011 Catherine Todd wrote:
“In leadership, there are three don’ts:
 
     When there is much to do, don’t be afraid; 
     When there is nothing to do, don’t be hasty; and
     Don’t talk about opinions of right or wrong when 
     action can be taken.
 
A leader who succeeds in these things won’t be confused or deluded by external objects and circumstances.”
 
Thank you. I need to learn this. Much to be gleaned here. CT
 

You Carry Your Wound, by Osho

FaceBook  On Dec 20, 2010 Catherine Todd wrote:

Ah, thank you Ganoba. Now I understand. Not serious and smile. :)

 

You Carry Your Wound, by Osho

FaceBook  On Dec 19, 2010 Catherine Todd wrote:

Ganoba, you knew I had to write.

You wrote: "Ignore this stuff too."  What does this mean? What are you talking about?

 

You Carry Your Wound, by Osho

FaceBook  On Dec 18, 2010 Catherine Todd wrote:

Pancho and others: I am re-reading these reflections adn am stunned by their beauty, power and inspiration. I will print out and post on my wall. Thanks to you all!

 

Ancient Law of Hospitality, by Thomas Berry

FaceBook  On Dec 17, 2010 Catherine Todd wrote:

Thanks Varsha for the link to the Free Farm. Going there now. Thefreefarm.org

 

Ancient Law of Hospitality, by Thomas Berry

FaceBook  On Dec 17, 2010 Catherine Todd wrote:

Alright, here's a real life experience. How to offer "hospitality" without incurring damage to oneself or one's home (possession)?

http://weburbanist.com/2008/07/17/unique-beach-houses-and-lake-houses/

Castel Meur, also known as The House Between the Rocks or La Maison de Plougrescant, was built in 1861. It’s nestled between two natural granite pillars on the English Channel coast in Brittany, France. Those rocks and the waterside location make Castel Meur an extremely photogenic abode. The house became somewhat famous when postcards featuring a beautiful photograph of the property were sold in gift shops around the world. Unfortunately, tourists lacking respect for the residence have caused damage to the home and property, prompting the owner to prohibit commercial sale of images of the home.

 

Ancient Law of Hospitality, by Thomas Berry

FaceBook  On Dec 17, 2010 Catherine Todd wrote:

OMG. Oh My Goodness. Oh My God.

You have really answered many of my questions in this passage. So much to learn. I will print all this out and give it a try in "meditation" and also with the "kindred spirits" here on this page who are taking so much time with me answering so many questions. I think those "dancers" are like my fingers who "dance over" the black and white keys of the piano, into the Silver Stream when I "get out of the way." This must be what you meant. I thank you all. CT

I couldn't upload this image, but it reminds me of what you are talking about. You can see the Horsehead Nebula ~ Orion on the NASA image gallery (can't post a link or image here)

 

PS: This is all probably "off topic" so I will try to limit my responses in the future. Gracias.

 

Ancient Law of Hospitality, by Thomas Berry

FaceBook  On Dec 17, 2010 Catherine Todd wrote:

Rambor wrote: "In my opinion being able to say "no" to a request is as important as being able to say "yes". In fact through saying "no" to someone you could in a way be helping them to rely on you less, thereby helping them grow"

Very good points.

But then you wrote: "At the same time you have to ask yourself whether you are holding back ["not giving?] because you feel that you will be "less" through the giving. It is this state of mind which I was talking about in my first post - this state of mind comes from a sense of lack due to identification with my ego; these sorts of thoughts are unnecessary."

What "state of mind" and what "sorts of thoughts are unnecessary?"  "Holding back and not giving?"

"From a sense of lack due to identification with my ego?" 

That the ego thinks it won't have enough???

There's so much to understand here when one is new to all this. I feel very foolish here, as obviously the people on this post are advanced and I am barely - if at all - a "beginner." Really, I'm not even ON the totem pole. But I appreciate every little bit and am reading and absorbing as much as I can.

Any responses, readings, literature or links (as others have sent me) are much appreciated. I have heard this kind of discussion all my life but never understood what it meant. Not really, as I never saw it put into what I considered "positive practice."

Gracias...

CatherineTodd2 at gmail dot com

 

Ancient Law of Hospitality, by Thomas Berry

FaceBook  On Dec 16, 2010 Catherine Todd wrote:

Two questions, Somik:

1. "In a sense, nature is the ultimate trustee, protecting the gift of life with the gift of death. Nature is also the ultimate receiver, for in every ecosystem, we find every species receiving benefits from the actions of others, in a natural manner :)."

What do you mean "protecting the gift of life with the gift of death.?"

 

2. "The best dancers do not dance..." I understand about "the best fighters do not fight," but not dancing?

And then why bring up an example about being "unwilling to dance the dance?"

(maybe this is three questions)

 

Ancient Law of Hospitality, by Thomas Berry

FaceBook  On Dec 16, 2010 Catherine Todd wrote:

Ahhhh, Somik. You have hit both nails on the head!  You wrote:

"The passage seemed to be highlighting for us two opposites: receiving (Thoreau's story) and trusteeship (Mencius' story). Swami Vivekananda, Gandhi, Vinoba, all encourage the rich to think of themselves as trustees of the poor. This attitude did not require giving up one's riches, but it did involve expanding the circle of well-being to more than one's narrow context."

I was definitely talking about "stewardship." That is easy for me to believe in and to do, in more ways than just "the poor." I try to be a steward of the earth, in all shapes and forms.

I'm going to read all of your reflection again, and think about it. How exactly do you "meditate" about this, and how does this differ from my "thinking" about this?

Or are you referring to regular meditation while "clearing your mind?"

 

Ancient Law of Hospitality, by Thomas Berry

FaceBook  On Dec 16, 2010 Catherine Todd wrote:

P.S. Regarding "the experience of Henry David Thoreau, an American naturalist the mid-nineteenth century who lived a very simple life with few personal possessions. At one time he was attracted to the idea of purchasing an especially beautiful bit of land with a pasture and a wooded area..."   Sure, Thoreau didn't have to "own" that beautiful piece of land to "enjoy" it, at least until someone built something else on that piece of land that was NOT so beautiful, or destroyed the peace and quiet of the area, or poisoned the area, or I could go on and on... This kind of reference doesn't make sense anymore, especially since Walden's Pond has been PURCHASED to PRESERVE IT. What I have seen is that I don't have to own "that particular piece of land," as there are beautiful pieces of land everyone on God's good earth, and I can own a piece of land anywhere in the world and enjoy the trees and the dirt and the flowers and vegetables that grow anywhere in the soil anywhere in the world. But ask a homeless person or land-less person how much they "enjoy" looking at areas of "beauty" when they have no security of their own. Are we all to be begging wanderers with nowhere to call our own? Even monasteries own the land they sit on; St. Francis might not have wanted to "own" the land that was granted to him by the nobleman, but the rest of the congregation did and did so as soon as Francis died. Are we supposed to go find a cave to live in and sleep with the wolves and hide from the buzzards because we don't "own" anything? I would prefer to be a "steward" of the land and TAKE CARE of what I own and SHARE what I own so that ALL CAN BENEFIT. Ownership has it's price and it's rights and responsibilities. How else can we protect things, unless we are to live with nothing at all? I took a vow of poverty when I was a novitiate many years ago. I now own too many things and am down  See full.

P.S. Regarding "the experience of Henry David Thoreau, an American naturalist the mid-nineteenth century who lived a very simple life with few personal possessions. At one time he was attracted to the idea of purchasing an especially beautiful bit of land with a pasture and a wooded area..."
 

Sure, Thoreau didn't have to "own" that beautiful piece of land to "enjoy" it, at least until someone built something else on that piece of land that was NOT so beautiful, or destroyed the peace and quiet of the area, or poisoned the area, or I could go on and on...

This kind of reference doesn't make sense anymore, especially since Walden's Pond has been PURCHASED to PRESERVE IT.

What I have seen is that I don't have to own "that particular piece of land," as there are beautiful pieces of land everyone on God's good earth, and I can own a piece of land anywhere in the world and enjoy the trees and the dirt and the flowers and vegetables that grow anywhere in the soil anywhere in the world. But ask a homeless person or land-less person how much they "enjoy" looking at areas of "beauty" when they have no security of their own.

Are we all to be begging wanderers with nowhere to call our own? Even monasteries own the land they sit on; St. Francis might not have wanted to "own" the land that was granted to him by the nobleman, but the rest of the congregation did and did so as soon as Francis died. Are we supposed to go find a cave to live in and sleep with the wolves and hide from the buzzards because we don't "own" anything?

I would prefer to be a "steward" of the land and TAKE CARE of what I own and SHARE what I own so that ALL CAN BENEFIT. Ownership has it's price and it's rights and responsibilities. How else can we protect things, unless we are to live with nothing at all?

I took a vow of poverty when I was a novitiate many years ago. I now own too many things and am downsizing and feeling free-er than I have in years, but that is due to my age (60) and is appropriate for now. I think having fewer possessions can be a good thing, but sharing and caring has more meaning to me than "owning nothing." I am also reminded of the wonderful film called "The Gods Must Be Crazy" and how finding a glass coca-cola bottle caused so much trouble, envy and more in the simple African village where it fell from the sky. But we don't live in a tribal community or in dirt huts and keep cows and drink blood. We live in modern day America or Europe or many other developed countries. What philosophy can help us in this day and age?

It seems I don't understand this "detachment" philosophy any better now than when I was a little hippy girl back in the '60's, even after all these years. I'd like to read about real, modern day situations that would help the world, not just "give it up" or "remove oneself." If that is the case, I'd become a hermit living out in the woods like I also did many years ago. I like indoor plumbing and I like owning my own home and my own land so I can protect it and myself. Improve it and enjoy the benefits and the garden that is my church. It's peaceful here because it is MINE. I can fence out the noise and distractions of the neighbors and all the drama they enjoin. If I rented or squatted, that would surely not be the case.

Perhaps this is too literal, but it's something that I've thought about for a long, long time.

Now that I've thought about this statement ("moral to the story"):

         "Give me that which enabled you to give it to me."

I'm still not sure. Hmmmmm.

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Ancient Law of Hospitality, by Thomas Berry

FaceBook  On Dec 16, 2010 Catherine Todd wrote:

Rambo wrote: "It's only when I share without expecting return that I will actually get the feeling of joy that the post mentions."   Sounds good, but how do you "not expect" at least GOOD TREATMENT when you share or give something? Have you ever heard of "biting the hand that feeds you?" What do you do when you give something to someone and they then begin to DEMAND things of you, because you are shown to be a "soft touch?" Then when you finally begin to refuse, they rob you? All these philosophical thoughts sound good on paper, but when does "giving" become "enabling" and when does it put you in danger? This has actually happened to me, more than once. That is why I have begun to doubt this kind of philosophy. The "joy" in giving can be an co-dependent addiction, too, can't it? What ever happened about equal "sharing?" Why so much focus on "giving until it hurts" and "give more?" I don't want to be a barefoot monk with a rough robe and a walking stick, sleeping under the bushes. I want to work WITH people and SHARE with people, and not have people TAKING ADVANTAGE of my or others generous natures, with all their own selfish desires. WHAT ABOUT THAT? You can't just say "Give anyway, and karma will take it's course." All this giving has created a nation of dependents and beggars in too many parts of the world. Better to help people WORK and EARN what they need, and perhaps even *gasp* learn to use birth control, and share a little bit themselves?   When does GIVING HURT? If you don't believe me, look at what has happened in Africa in the last ten or twenty years. The Africans themselves are calling out for an end to patronizing "giving." If I didn't want anything, I wouldn't be on this earth to begin with. If I don't want anything, then I don't need anything and don't need to be alive. Too many questions in the midst of this fasc  See full.

Rambo wrote: "It's only when I share without expecting return that I will actually get the feeling of joy that the post mentions."

 

Sounds good, but how do you "not expect" at least GOOD TREATMENT when you share or give something? Have you ever heard of "biting the hand that feeds you?" What do you do when you give something to someone and they then begin to DEMAND things of you, because you are shown to be a "soft touch?" Then when you finally begin to refuse, they rob you?

All these philosophical thoughts sound good on paper, but when does "giving" become "enabling" and when does it put you in danger? This has actually happened to me, more than once. That is why I have begun to doubt this kind of philosophy. The "joy" in giving can be an co-dependent addiction, too, can't it?

What ever happened about equal "sharing?" Why so much focus on "giving until it hurts" and "give more?" I don't want to be a barefoot monk with a rough robe and a walking stick, sleeping under the bushes. I want to work WITH people and SHARE with people, and not have people TAKING ADVANTAGE of my or others generous natures, with all their own selfish desires.

WHAT ABOUT THAT? You can't just say "Give anyway, and karma will take it's course." All this giving has created a nation of dependents and beggars in too many parts of the world. Better to help people WORK and EARN what they need, and perhaps even *gasp* learn to use birth control, and share a little bit themselves?

 

When does GIVING HURT? If you don't believe me, look at what has happened in Africa in the last ten or twenty years. The Africans themselves are calling out for an end to patronizing "giving." If I didn't want anything, I wouldn't be on this earth to begin with. If I don't want anything, then I don't need anything and don't need to be alive.

Too many questions in the midst of this fascinating conversation, with apparently no though to consequences for the other side. Perhaps in the "old days" it was important to "give to the beggars" or the monks with their begging bowls. But I'm not sure that is still a modern succesful way to live, for anyone on either side.

I have wondered about this "no attachment" philosophy all my life.  Makes no sense to me, me who is a "generous" codependent giver all my life. I have to practice saying NO to others and once in a while YES to myself. Help!

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Ancient Law of Hospitality, by Thomas Berry

FaceBook  On Dec 16, 2010 Catherine Todd wrote:

"Give me that which enabled you to give it to me."

Wonderful. Just what I needed to hear. THANK YOU.

 

Ancient Law of Hospitality, by Thomas Berry

FaceBook  On Dec 16, 2010 Catherine Todd wrote:

Varsha, where is "the Free Farm?" Interesting post. Thanks.

 

Ancient Law of Hospitality, by Thomas Berry

FaceBook  On Dec 13, 2010 Catherine Todd wrote:

Beautiful thoughts for reflection. Thanks for posting!

 

Building a Creative Temple, by Martin Luther King, Jr.

FaceBook  On Dec 13, 2010 Catherine Todd wrote:

Thanks to Pancho, Somik, Sanjeev, Mia and the others as well for their reflections. There is so much instructive information here, I am going to have to print it out and post it on my wall and read it again and again.

 

More later, I hope. Looking forward to everyone's thoughts. Much to be gleaned here, in shining glitter and gold.

 

Building a Creative Temple, by Martin Luther King, Jr.

FaceBook  On Dec 13, 2010 Catherine Todd wrote:

Dear Somik, thanks for your thoughts about "beliefs" creating "experiences." In my case, my experiences definitely created my current beliefs. I really thought I could change things out here by being good and caring and sharing and taking care of others, and all I got was robbed and almost killed for my efforts. Efforts that lasted over ten years. So I have definitley changed my beliefs. But I think it is time to stop thinking the whole world will be like these good-for-nothings that really don't care what they do or who they hurt. I have found a new group of people that really do seem to care about the world and the people in it. I think I am AFRAID to "believe" again and have all the bad things come back down all around me, like rain in a thunderstorm and hurricanes and tsunamis. That is what it was like before. If you've never been around or lived around hypocrites, liars, drug addicts, alcoholics and thieves, you probably don't know what I am talking about, but it's not a pretty picture or a positive environment. People warned me over and over that I was spending time with dangerous, unreliable and manipulative people, but I believed the "best of people" and refused to listen. It almost cost me my life, in a number of different ways. Ten years of HELL that I brought on myself by "trying to help" and "make a difference" and I believed they just hadn't had a chance yet and all the other white liberal middle class b.s. I really believed in. I sure learned different, the hard way. So I don't believe it's my "beliefs" that created my cynicism. It's my experience that did. Now I've put up a fence around our property (a literal, physical fence and an emotional one) and have moved part-time to a place I can afford that IS in a much more positive environment, so some kind of faith is coming back, however slender it may be. I don't blame myself so much for endangering my life, despite repeated warnin  See full.

Dear Somik, thanks for your thoughts about "beliefs" creating "experiences." In my case, my experiences definitely created my current beliefs. I really thought I could change things out here by being good and caring and sharing and taking care of others, and all I got was robbed and almost killed for my efforts. Efforts that lasted over ten years. So I have definitley changed my beliefs.

But I think it is time to stop thinking the whole world will be like these good-for-nothings that really don't care what they do or who they hurt. I have found a new group of people that really do seem to care about the world and the people in it. I think I am AFRAID to "believe" again and have all the bad things come back down all around me, like rain in a thunderstorm and hurricanes and tsunamis. That is what it was like before. If you've never been around or lived around hypocrites, liars, drug addicts, alcoholics and thieves, you probably don't know what I am talking about, but it's not a pretty picture or a positive environment. People warned me over and over that I was spending time with dangerous, unreliable and manipulative people, but I believed the "best of people" and refused to listen. It almost cost me my life, in a number of different ways. Ten years of HELL that I brought on myself by "trying to help" and "make a difference" and I believed they just hadn't had a chance yet and all the other white liberal middle class b.s. I really believed in. I sure learned different, the hard way. So I don't believe it's my "beliefs" that created my cynicism. It's my experience that did.

Now I've put up a fence around our property (a literal, physical fence and an emotional one) and have moved part-time to a place I can afford that IS in a much more positive environment, so some kind of faith is coming back, however slender it may be. I don't blame myself so much for endangering my life, despite repeated warnings, as I really believed that racism was wrong and that if only people "really knew" how the "other side lived," and helped those "poor people" everything would change. People used to call me a saint. Now I call myself a fool. I hope I never make those same mistakes again. Foolish is putting it mildly. People end up in prison because they earned the right to be there. I don't have to give them an opportunity to go back there after robbing, threatening or killing me.

You wrote: "This comment was not for others doing wrong things, but for you (and me) who are trying to determine whether anger is a good decision or not."

OK. That makes sense.

I don't have guilt about their decisions, but fear about what they might again do to me, or try to do to me! It's made me fearful and angry and I have to find a way to let this go.

Then you talked about "guilt about others mistakes." I don't think they are "mistakes" but concious actions designed to hurt and damage and destroy, but your earlier talk about "gardens being destroyed" and everything is destroyed at one time or another is something important to think about. Alright. I think I am "hooked." I can look at this new kind of thinking and see if I can fit myself in there somewhere.

Especially the part about Ghandi and cowards, and violence vs. nonviolence and asserting oneself, in the best possible way.

I can try to do that and I will. I will finish reading all that has been written here and check out the links and begin this "new course of study." Finally, someone is explaining things in a way I can understand and a way I can "stand." No namby-pamby stuff here. Much appreciated.

 

I had no idea I was in this state of mind until I started responding to this site. Whew! I have a long way to go, but with an end in sight. Gracias amigos.

 

Last but not least, you wrote:

 

"About games, we are all playing "human" games here. We are role-playing so many different roles. Unfortunately, unlike actors who shed their on-screen persona when they come home (or head toward dementia), we do not know to do that, at least not without significant kicking and screaming. :)"

 

Well, alright. LOL. I'll have to think about that one, but I will. Buenos Noches.

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Building a Creative Temple, by Martin Luther King, Jr.

FaceBook  On Dec 13, 2010 Catherine Todd wrote:

Somik, I realize that Mia wasn't "happy" about the nun being robbed, and that she did stand up to them. I didn't write it or express myself very well there. It's just that I could never consider any kind of silver lining or happiness coming out of being robbed, other than the person stealing some arsenic donuts, perhaps, and enjoying eating them! Now that thought would bring me some "happiness." I have talked to plenty of people about their bad acts, and believe me, most of them don't care and won't return things. They like doing wrong! You wrote that their acts were "not a decision from the space of freedom, but a reaction from a space of bondage." Perhaps, but they are more than willing to put others into bondage and stay where they are, Lord of the jungle and king of the Hill in their own little corner of hell. They don't want to come out and they don't even try, and they will do all they can to keep you in. Some people have a concience, but many don't. All most people care about is "filling their own rice bowl," and those few who act on behalf of others we call heroes or saints.   The theives in the story probably aren't going to get any "spiritual gain" from what they've stolen because of the way they gained it. That was their choice, not bondage. Decisions and Choice. They don't want spiritual help or they would be seeking that and not the object of their addiction, whatever they are addicted to (money, things, thrills, danger, drugs, whatever). But that's another story and discussion. You wrote: "Gandhi, initially, advocated nonviolence for Indians as back then, Indians had not fought in major wars, and he considered most Indians to be cowards. Over the years, as he deepened his experiments with truth, he realized that nonviolence was certainly not the path of the coward; it was the path of the bravest. He then reversed his recommendation, and told people to first experience violence, be  See full.

Somik, I realize that Mia wasn't "happy" about the nun being robbed, and that she did stand up to them. I didn't write it or express myself very well there. It's just that I could never consider any kind of silver lining or happiness coming out of being robbed, other than the person stealing some arsenic donuts, perhaps, and enjoying eating them! Now that thought would bring me some "happiness."

I have talked to plenty of people about their bad acts, and believe me, most of them don't care and won't return things. They like doing wrong! You wrote that their acts were "not a decision from the space of freedom, but a reaction from a space of bondage." Perhaps, but they are more than willing to put others into bondage and stay where they are, Lord of the jungle and king of the Hill in their own little corner of hell. They don't want to come out and they don't even try, and they will do all they can to keep you in.

Some people have a concience, but many don't. All most people care about is "filling their own rice bowl," and those few who act on behalf of others we call heroes or saints.

 

The theives in the story probably aren't going to get any "spiritual gain" from what they've stolen because of the way they gained it. That was their choice, not bondage. Decisions and Choice. They don't want spiritual help or they would be seeking that and not the object of their addiction, whatever they are addicted to (money, things, thrills, danger, drugs, whatever). But that's another story and discussion.

You wrote: "Gandhi, initially, advocated nonviolence for Indians as back then, Indians had not fought in major wars, and he considered most Indians to be cowards. Over the years, as he deepened his experiments with truth, he realized that nonviolence was certainly not the path of the coward; it was the path of the bravest. He then reversed his recommendation, and told people to first experience violence, be capable of it, and then come to nonviolence."

Well, OK. That describes me. I can try to do this, come to nonviolence. I am never physically violent but emotionally in anger I am, even if it's just "in my mind" mentally, and never expressed outwardly. But I realize it has to stop. It's been making me sick inside and out. I ask God to grant me peace and this is surely a positive way to start. Alright.

Then you write: "Now, about gardens being destroyed - this is the real test of life. Every garden you make in your life WILL be destroyed, and most likely in your own lifetime. Connecting your happiness with the fruits you get is a big recipe for misery, for if there is one right we do not have, it is the right to expect. Nothing good ever came of expectations. The real test of spiritual growth for us is when, all our gardens are destroyed, we are able to cock our head and have a hearty laugh - "look at the silliness and fun of it all!" and move on to our next game."

Game? That's a little hard to swallow, but I'll give it a chance. "The real test of life" is something I do want to fulfill. I don't want my garden destroyed, and I'll fight to the death to protect it. But if my "garden" is the Garden of Eden, I suppose there's no death there and nothing to protect.

Alright. I'm going to re-read your comments (reflections) and think about this some more.

Where is that book you are promising / creating here? Whether or not you know it?

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Building a Creative Temple, by Martin Luther King, Jr.

FaceBook  On Dec 13, 2010 Catherine Todd wrote:

Sanjeev, you wrote that it's alright and important to "fight for justice or Dharma."

OK. I will do this further reading and find out "how to fight for justice." I know there are different ways to do this, and I don't always use the best way. THANK YOU. So glad to find out I don't have to QUIT being here! After reading about someone being "happy" that robbers got a nun's bowl, really thought it was all over for me. I was through.

Will go find a copy of "Holy Gita" right away.

 

Found this: http://www.bhagavad-gita.org/

Namaste! Welcome to the Bhagavad- Gita online. We are happy you have arrived and it will be our pleasure to serve you. Here you will be presented transcendental knowledge of the most profound spiritual nature as revealed in the Bhagavad- Gita. It is the divine discourse spoken by the Supreme Lord Krishna Himself and is the most popular and well known of all the sacred scriptures from ancient India. Always being revered as a true source of spiritual knowledge it reveals the purpose and goal of human existence. In conjunction to this we will be presenting precise Vedic verification of the Supreme Lord Krishna's divine incarnations as evidence confirming His supreme position. In Bhagavad- Gita, chapter 10, verse 20, the Supreme Lord reveals that He manifests as the immortal soul within each and every living entity. No where else within any other religious scripture is this information available. Our purpose is to make the eternal knowledge of Bhagavad- Gita freely available to everyone all over the Earth. (more)

 

Building a Creative Temple, by Martin Luther King, Jr.

FaceBook  On Dec 12, 2010 Catherine Todd wrote:

Somik, I agree that this story about the nun being robbed and her companion's response is "very touching" (if that's what that statement is referring to), but I can assure you there is no way that I would ever feel "compassion" for people like that. Even if they were "spoken to" nicely or otherwise, there are people in this world who are just plain bad. Evil, if you will. "Speak to them" and they will strike or kill you, plain and simple. This is how I started off talking on this site: Do we have to be a "martyr for the cause?" What good does it do NOT to react with anger when people are killing you or stealing your things? What good does it do to do NOTHING in return to show them the error of their ways? Are we supposed to have "compassion" for the Nazis and the evil they did? Did we just need to "talk to them" and they would have laid down their guns and closed down the concentration camps and turned off the gas ovens? How to reconcile all this? Should the Jews have just "prayed their way out of this?" Or faced death with compassion for the Germans? All the meditaiton / compassion stuff in the world sounds good until I try to imagine really putting it into practice. What good does it do to lose your own life or your possessions or the life of your children and home for an attitude of "peace" that only allows evil and conflict to continue to flourish? Yes, you can't gain peace with war, perhaps, but you can sure let people know that if they try to make way with you, they will get what they give. And then some. Why do you think that Americans are so shocked that we were finally attacked? Because no one dared to do it before. My response was "what took them so long?" since we have been attacking others all over the world. Not a popular response, to be sure, but I would hate to be a weak country that gets blasted over and over again by bullies and those stronger than  See full.

Somik, I agree that this story about the nun being robbed and her companion's response is "very touching" (if that's what that statement is referring to), but I can assure you there is no way that I would ever feel "compassion" for people like that. Even if they were "spoken to" nicely or otherwise, there are people in this world who are just plain bad. Evil, if you will. "Speak to them" and they will strike or kill you, plain and simple. This is how I started off talking on this site: Do we have to be a "martyr for the cause?" What good does it do NOT to react with anger when people are killing you or stealing your things? What good does it do to do NOTHING in return to show them the error of their ways? Are we supposed to have "compassion" for the Nazis and the evil they did? Did we just need to "talk to them" and they would have laid down their guns and closed down the concentration camps and turned off the gas ovens?

How to reconcile all this? Should the Jews have just "prayed their way out of this?" Or faced death with compassion for the Germans?

All the meditaiton / compassion stuff in the world sounds good until I try to imagine really putting it into practice. What good does it do to lose your own life or your possessions or the life of your children and home for an attitude of "peace" that only allows evil and conflict to continue to flourish? Yes, you can't gain peace with war, perhaps, but you can sure let people know that if they try to make way with you, they will get what they give. And then some. Why do you think that Americans are so shocked that we were finally attacked? Because no one dared to do it before.

My response was "what took them so long?" since we have been attacking others all over the world. Not a popular response, to be sure, but I would hate to be a weak country that gets blasted over and over again by bullies and those stronger than them. I would prefer to be a "neutral country" but as long as you have something that someone else wants, look out. They are going to try and take it.

 

So does this mean we just wish the robbers well and hope they enjoy the "good vibes" from our things and our teachings, and give up whatever we have to the bullies and the devils in this world? I'm not a mouse. I am a tiger. I'm not here to be eaten by the others. I don't cause trouble but if trouble comes I don't run away. And people only try to overtake me once. I don't start anything, but if trouble comes, I put a stop to it. I've taken away knives, guns and broken bottles and put a stop to many a fight. I have gone in to protect those weaker than me to put a stop to beatings and more. But I am never "happy" for people have done wrong.They need to learn in the shortest amount of time NEVER to act that way again.

I'm not saying I am right, but I don't know how to live any other way. I've seen too many people take the coward's way out, saying they don't want "violence" and they want "peace" when really they don't stand up for themselves or anyone else and then the bad ones take over.

Who wants to live in a completely corrupt society run by killers and theives? Isn't that what this kind of thing actually leads to? Where is this "nirvana" society where people don't care if they live or they die as long as someone else gains "good vibes" from the evil that they have done?

 

HELP! I do not understand. Maybe I don't belong here after all, or I have far too much to learn. I really don't know. But I know that in the cases where someone has tried to rob me, it isn't going to happen and they wouldn't even dare to try. I am glad for that. I prefer to feel safe wherever I go, because I know I can take care of myself and the bad guys know it too. I am therefore left alone in peace!

Somik, you wrote: "I liked the word "creative temple" very much, and it brought up for me a term in India, "karma bhoomeee," which translates to "field of action." Field is quite appropriate, for we plant seeds with our actions, and the fruits we get now are from seeds planted in the past. If we keep planting high quality seeds, then there will come a time that someone will benefit from it. If many of us thought that way, then we would end up converting our field of action into a creative temple. In many ways, I find the space of Wednesdays to be like a creative temple given the beautiful seeds that have been planted over the years."

This is a beautiful statement, and as a master gardener myself, one I can really appreciate. But what would it be like if your Wed's were abruptly put a stop to by political or religious persecution? What would all these "seeds" be worth then? Or if your beautiful "temple" was destroyed by outside forces of hatred and greed?

This is where I get confused. I live in a neighborhood where this has taken place, on the physical plane. I used to believe in "planting seeds" and "showing compassion" and that people ultimately or innately were "good." Now I see differently, and I don't see a way back.

Please advise. When is acting in "nonviolence" just plain cowardice? How to know the difference?

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Building a Creative Temple, by Martin Luther King, Jr.

FaceBook  On Dec 9, 2010 Catherine Todd wrote:

Thank you Ripa for sending me the link for more about "Building a Creative Temple." Going there now. Might be just what I need. Gracias!

http://wholeyoga.wordpress.com/2010/12/10/building-my-own-creative-temple/

 

Building a Creative Temple, by Martin Luther King, Jr.

FaceBook  On Dec 9, 2010 Catherine Todd wrote:

Sanjeev, I would be very interested in reading whatever you can send me. Write CatherineTodd2@gmail dot com or ctodd1000@gmail dot com.

But what do you mean "Mind is in fact a sub-atomic particle?" My mind is a whole bunch of particles; in fact, I feel like the Swan / Orion Nebula, full of gasses and neutrons and a regular star-factory!

Omega/Swan Nebula (M17). Hubblesite.org:

HubbleSite - Picture Album: A Perfect Storm of Turbulent Gases in ...

hubblesite.org/gallery/album/pr2003013a/

As I mentioned earlier, where is "that book you have been writing" even if only in your mind? I think it's ready to "pop out" if you know what I mean! No one has ever described things in the way you have, including the "prophet Newton." I am ready for more!

Dinesh, thanks for the link for the audio speech. I did a bit of searching to find out more about this sermon, and learned a lot. It will be good to hear it "in person."

 

But I STILL don't know what a "creative temple" is, vs. a "physical temple" or whatever. What does the word "creative" signify here? A spiritual temple, an emotional temple, a mental temple, what is a CREATIVE TEMPLE?

An art gallery?

 

CT

 

Building a Creative Temple, by Martin Luther King, Jr.

FaceBook  On Dec 8, 2010 Catherine Todd wrote:

Alright, Sanjeev: You wrote: "According to Yoga, every living being has four kind of personalities-Physical ( body), Emotional ( Mind), Intellectual (intelligence) and spiritual ( soul)"

I'm stuck in the emotional (Mind) basement. How to get out?

What is the difference between Mind and Intelligence?

What is the difference between Mind, Intelligence, and Spiritual (Soul)?

I thought the spiritual life WAS the "emotional life," as "peace" is an emotion, and too often lacking in me. I've got the rest down (most of the time).

 

Building a Creative Temple, by Martin Luther King, Jr.

FaceBook  On Dec 8, 2010 Catherine Todd wrote:

"Zero and Infinity:" Wow! Somik, when are you going to write "that book" or have you already done so? I want to read more. Will re-read the above and post it on my wall. So much to consider now ("reflection" and I'm a busy bee flying over a mirrored pool. Whew! Spread wings and fly.

This all reminds me of The Silver Stream in "Pilgrim:" www.Last.fm/music/Catherine+Todd

Gracias, amigos. CT

 

Building a Creative Temple, by Martin Luther King, Jr.

FaceBook  On Dec 8, 2010 Catherine Todd wrote:

Sanjeev, you wrote: "The goal of life and meditation is to identify  our vices and eliminate them so that we could go closer to God ( located at infinity)."

Thank you. Finally I have an idea of what "meditation" can do, or is supposed to do. I always heard the "clear your mind / blank slate" which didn't do me any good. I think I can do it the way you describe.

You also wrote:

"The infinity in this metaphor represents all virtues ( 100% virtues) and we humans are combinations of virtues and vices. Our closeness to God is determined by the  proportions of virtues and vices within ourselves. Demon represents "0" in this line"

Perfect sense. I can do this, too. And hope I don't get too many more "zeros" on my card.

Is this practice building a "creative temple" inside, as referred to in this post?

Good to know I don't have to "go to temple" as I prefer to do this quietly as well. I am very happy to find a connection with people who are striving for "spirituality," as seems to be here.

Gracias, amigos. CT

 

Building a Creative Temple, by Martin Luther King, Jr.

FaceBook  On Dec 7, 2010 Catherine Todd wrote:

What is a "creative temple" and how does one "build it?"

Is this different from building a "physical temple" (which I understand very well, as I am a builder) and does it refer to the "spiritual life?"

 

You Carry Your Wound, by Osho

FaceBook  On Dec 7, 2010 Catherine Todd wrote:

Aernout Zevenbergen: thanks for your comment. I was very moved by the "man who was raped in prison" and was determined to get past it. Then I realized how many women are raped on a daily basis, with little if any support to "get past it." All over the world. It wasn't until about 20 years ago in this country that women didn't have to be "virgens" to make a claim of rape, and they were still held "responsible" for things as simple as the hidden undergarments they wore. No hero worship there!

I know this from personal experience when it happened to me. And when women are raped, they aren't just "ganged banged" by a bunch of guys. Their lives are also threatened. When will it all end? How to "accept" this without getting POLITICAL?

 

You Carry Your Wound, by Osho

FaceBook  On Dec 7, 2010 Catherine Todd wrote:

Thank you for creating the comment notification! Now on to read more reflections... Gracias, amigo!

 

Building a Creative Temple, by Martin Luther King, Jr.

FaceBook  On Dec 7, 2010 Catherine Todd wrote:

Derek, that's a great comment with a lot to think about. I haven't seen the movie or read the book " Eat, Pray, Love" but maybe I should. Right away. I am finding a much richer balance where I live part time at Lake Atitlan, Guatemala, and a much more fruitful spiritual life, but I am only there part time as I still work in the United States. My friends and I all wish for a "spiritual life" here in the good ole USA in the midst of materialism and war. It's quite different when you live in a cultural that SUPPORTS a more spiritual life, but that oftens comes with a much "poorer" country in material goods & "progress." As much fundraising and "help" I give the indigenous people in Guatemala, I am aware that I am helping to destroy the very things I enjoy about their culture and the benefits I hold most dear. Modern conveniences and "information exposure" can have a terrible cost. "Education" in the wrong ways doesn't help anyone; it hinders them. And we gringos are "educating" the poor Guatemalans left and right. If we are not careful, we'll turn them into a welfare state as we have here in the states; greedy, grasping, lazy and complaining. Things you never see where I live now. Well, the "greedy" part sometimes, and corruption for sure, but none of the rest since the government gives no handouts, which I always believed in before I saw the difference when people work for themselves and together and don't just wait around for someone else to do it, or wait for it to be handed to them. But this is probably another discussion - or is it?   Their children are being raised reading and writing, working computers (that I bring to them) and it is opening doors they never knew existed. Yet, when I see people from the capital or Antigua coming to the lake and bringing all their modern dress and modern conveniences, and modern attitudes, it's a crying shame. What are we doi  See full.

Derek, that's a great comment with a lot to think about. I haven't seen the movie or read the book "
Eat, Pray, Love" but maybe I should. Right away. I am finding a much richer balance where I live part time at Lake Atitlan, Guatemala, and a much more fruitful spiritual life, but I am only there part time as I still work in the United States. My friends and I all wish for a "spiritual life" here in the good ole USA in the midst of materialism and war. It's quite different when you live in a cultural that SUPPORTS a more spiritual life, but that oftens comes with a much "poorer" country in material goods & "progress."

As much fundraising and "help" I give the indigenous people in Guatemala, I am aware that I am helping to destroy the very things I enjoy about their culture and the benefits I hold most dear. Modern conveniences and "information exposure" can have a terrible cost. "Education" in the wrong ways doesn't help anyone; it hinders them. And we gringos are "educating" the poor Guatemalans left and right. If we are not careful, we'll turn them into a welfare state as we have here in the states; greedy, grasping, lazy and complaining. Things you never see where I live now.

Well, the "greedy" part sometimes, and corruption for sure, but none of the rest since the government gives no handouts, which I always believed in before I saw the difference when people work for themselves and together and don't just wait around for someone else to do it, or wait for it to be handed to them. But this is probably another discussion - or is it?

 

Their children are being raised reading and writing, working computers (that I bring to them) and it is opening doors they never knew existed. Yet, when I see people from the capital or Antigua coming to the lake and bringing all their modern dress and modern conveniences, and modern attitudes, it's a crying shame. What are we doing in our world, and how to make the "best of things" in the midst of a spiritual life?

Hide full comment.

 

Building a Creative Temple, by Martin Luther King, Jr.

FaceBook  On Dec 6, 2010 Catherine Todd wrote:

Excerpt:

"And in every one of us this morning, there’s a war going on. It’s a civil war. I don’t care who you are, I don’t care where you live, there is a civil war going on in your life."

And I thought it was just me!

"Is your heart right?  If your heart isn’t right, fix it up today. "

Well, OK. And just how do we do that? In specific cases, not just generalities? In times of conflict or attempts at resolution in conflict? When one has to stand up for themselves, in spite of the anger that will probably be engendered? How to keep peace when you have to take a stand?

Gandhi and King were killed for their beliefs, and I don't really want this to happen to me. But I want to stand up for myself, even though people will probably want to destroy me afterwards. I'm not a saint even though King may have been. I'd like to be, but I'm not. I'm working on nonviolence but it doesn't mean backing down. How to stand strong and stay in control and not give in to emotion, but keep the heart pure and still act with the emotions of courage and love?  How to know the difference?

Easy to pay lip service to "get rid of ego" etc., but the FEW people in this world who really act outside of self-interest we call "heroes" or "saints." That's how difficult or "out of the ordinary" this really is to do. I'd like to know some real heroes or saints in my own lifetime. People that really did make a difference and didn't have to "die trying." And didn't have a solely personal agenda of their own.

 

You Carry Your Wound, by Osho

FaceBook  On Dec 6, 2010 Catherine Todd wrote:

Thank you Patsy and Victoria. Victoria mentioned just what I was thinking: what do you do when you can't "control" (create) a positive outcome within a dysfunctional family? Separate from them for certain, but the pain never goes away. Especially when it is a loved one or a child. How to come to terms with that?

Yes, I can't control others actions. But I can't stop WISHING that things were different for me and my son.

Patsy wrote: "When I can accept that I am powerless over any other, but very powerful within myself, I can start to let go of the urge to control things. Then I can trust that if I do right, right results wil follow. It does not matter what others do or don't do. I cannot control them, but I can control myself. I can decide that faith allows me to do right without regard for the outcome, because the outcome will be right - even if it's in a way my current state of mind can't understand."

I will give this a try, but it really is not easy. Not for years and years now. I can come to grips with the "right action gives right results" (eventually) so that will help me "make it through the night." What else to do? Keeping distance from your own adult child never really heals, does it? The guilt and the love and the desire to see them happy and keep them from harm... how to let go of that? Tough Love and Love them from a distance really doesn't help a mother sleep at night.

---

How can I get notification of comments here? I didn't realize that anyone had commented until the next newsletter came with a few comments at the bottom from this one. So glad I saw it! Thanks for this "journey." It's just what I need right now, more than you can know. Thanks to everyone who wrote and commented here. Much to think about and much appreciated.

CatherineTodd2 at gmail dot com

 

 

Stop Eating Our Corn!, by Akinori Kimura

FaceBook  On Dec 1, 2010 Catherine Todd wrote:

I fed the racoons too, but they began to breed so well because they had a steady supply of food that we ended up with far more racoons than I could support with "extra" food. I loved those racoons as my own children but had to let them go back to the forest and some of them had to leave or die because there were far too many of them with a steady, sure food source and supply. Such is the laws of Nature. But I do like the idea of leaving the damaged kernels at the edge of the field, and sharing the harvest instead of just killing them. A very good way to start. I have heard of planting "one for the birds, one for the squirrels, and one for the people who want to eat in the garden" or some such thing as that.

 

You Carry Your Wound, by Osho

FaceBook  On Dec 1, 2010 Catherine Todd wrote:

Yes, this post is very profound. But there are people who DO want to wound you, and even kill you. It has happened to me. How to be "headless" and full of "acceptance" for this, too? HOW?

 

The Real Addiction, by S.N. Goenka

FaceBook  On Dec 1, 2010 Catherine Todd wrote:

Thank you. I will re-read this daily until it sinks in. CatherineTodd2 at gmail dot com.